Critical Dharma for Thinking Minds /Milk Tea Alliance

The Lama and the Pimp

Editor: It causes me great pain to have to write this, but the truth has come out (yet again) about abuse and corruption at the top of the Tibetan Buddhist food chain. Most of my readers have heard by now that a woman from Vancouver, British Columbia, Vikki Hui Xin Han, who aspired to be a Buddhist nun, was sexually assaulted by the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje while on retreat in New York State at his retreat center. She became pregnant as a result of that assault, had the child, but continued to have an emotionally intimate relationship with the Karmapa for several years, seeing him in person on only four occasions. The woman has brought a case in British Columbia suing for spousal support, alleging that they had a marital relationship.

But if you thought that was the end of the story, you would be wrong. Of course, Vikki Hui Xin Han was not the first or only woman with whom the Karmapa has had non-consensual sexual relations. Two other women, Jane Huang from Taiwan and Wu Hang Yee from Hong Kong, have revealed that each of them had a non-consensual sexual encounter with the 17th Karmapa while in India. Please listen to their stories in the video below.

Behind the sexual assaults of the Karmapa, which is shocking enough, is another hidden story of Dzongsar Khyentse, that Dzongsar was instrumental in grooming and pushing these and other women to the Karmapa for his sexual exploits. Dzongsar Khyentse was acting as the Karmapa’s pimp. This is a pattern of predation and exploitation that is very similar to those alleged about the Sakyong and the Shambhala organization, that it groomed women for sexual exploitation by the highest ranking teachers. In fact Jane Huang from Taiwan was a student of Dzongsar Khyentse, not the Karmapa, and was not interested in the Kagyu lineage. She was duped and pushed to serve as a translator for the Karmapa at Dzongsar’s request, through which she became the Karmapa’s victim.

The hidden backstory of Dzongsar Khyentse’s acting as groomer and pimp for the Karmapa goes a long way to explain why Dzongsar has vociferously defended other abusive Lamas, such as Sogyal, and defends the whole system of samaya-guru relationships.

The revelations of the two women from Taiwan and Hong Kong challenge yet another false perception and sham defense of the Tibetan tantric system—that these kinds of assaults only happen to “western” women in western sanghas, and are the result of their own ignorance as “privileged western” women. The truth is that this kind of exploitation happens not only to “western” women, but to Asian women as well, in Asian countries, and to women of Asian descent in western countries.

Why is this difficult for me to write? Well, because, once again, I had felt a connection with the 17th Karmapa as a teacher when I was first leaving both Shambhala and Nalandabodhi six years ago. I saw the Karmapa as “different” from the other Lamas, more relevant and socially engaged. I had read a book by the Karmapa at that time and found it very consoling and inspiring. In fact, at the beginning of this blog, Engage!, I wrote several blog posts based on that book. So that’s my personal connection and disappointment with the 17th Karmapa. The revelation of his exploitation and abuse of power leaves me sickened and disgusted.

Nearly every Buddhist leader I have looked up to and sangha I have joined has been involved in some kind of abuse or sex scandal, to whit: Shambhala (CTR, Sakyong), Refuge Recovery (Noah Levine), Dharma Treasure (Culadasa), Triratna (Sangharakshita). And now, the 17th Karmapa.

I left behind my formal connection with Tibetan Buddhism in 2015, and continue to move further and further away from any institutional connection to any sangha. I don’t regret becoming a Buddhist, I regret joining Buddhist organizations. But at the time, that was the only way that one could make a good start in learning the dharma and the practice of meditation.

There seems to be no end to this systemic misogyny and abuse of power, and it has happened in all Buddhist lineages. The only answer is to leave abusive organizations and stay out of them altogether. My advice to people who are interested in Buddhism is to get involved with a Buddhist organization just long enough to get started, then get out on your own as soon as you can. Learn whatever you can about Buddhism on your own, through books and online media. You’ll learn the dharma better if you learn it yourself, with the help of a few friends.

32 comments on “The Lama and the Pimp

  1. Sonam Norbu

    The Chinese propaganda to defame a someone without any concrete evidence.These girls blaming the Karmapa are nothing but Chinese agents whose only agenda is to destroy Buddhism.Beware of such phony random people.

    • Shaun Bartone

      Your statement is no more based on fact than mine is, except that I have the recorded testimony of the women themselves. What FACTS do you have to prove that these women are agents of the Chinese government?

    • Greta James

      Do you realize that’s a racist assumption you’ve made? Just because they’re of Chinese heritage, you’re assuming they’re agents of the PRC? Seriously? If that were true, it wouldn’t have been necessary for Dzongsar Khyentse to act as “intermediary” (the polite word for his role). The women could have initiated damning situations on their own. Your knee-jerk denunciation of the victims doesn’t hold water at all.

    • Erick Tsiknopoulos

      ‘Anyone Who Criticizes Us is Working for the Chinese Government: A Tibetan/Bhutanese Guide to Totally Avoiding All Personal Responsibility’

    • alaya

      I so deeply wish that was true. A paternity test proves HH Karmapa is father of the first woman who spoke about this troubling issue

    • victoria emory

      Both of these young ladies are reading from a printed script — it is simply obvious. I would not be so quick to believe this — they are reading, none of it is spontaneous

  2. Mo

    Thanks for the finely written article. I agree with the sentiment of following Buddhism while giving a wide berth to Buddhist centers once you’ve gotten the teachings. Detailed teaching are often better gotten from books than from official teachers who are simplistic, repetitive, and who really haven’t done much deep study themselves.
    All organized religion attracts loons, but I’ve never seen anyone trapped in the guru-follower dynamic develop spiritually in any noticeable fashion.
    Of course it’s sad (but expected) to see the racist, misogynist attacks on the mother of the Karmapa’s daughter and on all the other women with the courage to come forward.
    If Orgyen Trinley can’t even control himself like a responsible, mentally healthy adult, then no wonder he admits that he never felt like the real Karmapa. No, it’s not just “adorable humility,” it’s a rare breath of honesty.

  3. Jane Tai

    One of the women in this video, Jane Huang, has been Sued. The case is being tried in the High Court of Taiwan, and Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche is a witness.
    Canadian women and these two are together.
    They made Fake evidence to falsely accused Karmapa for money.

    • Shaun Bartone

      According this report, it’s the other way around. Jane Huang sued an accomplice of the Karmapa (April 2021) and WON her case. “Matilda on May 22, 2021 at 10:40 pm You’ve got it the wrong way around. Jane Huang successfully sued a disciple of Karmapa’s. Even the ‘karmapa-truth’ propaganda pages acknowledge that she won the court case.” https://buddhism-controversy-blog.com/2020/12/09/a-call-for-impartial-compassion/

      • Serena Skye

        She won 1 yuan (Taiwanese dollar) which is 3.6 cents US. Basically there isn’t a lower sum… She won because she p**sed a guy off and he responded badly.

        But the judge giving her the lowest possible amount is kind of “Yes, you technically broke the law by offending her, so I’ll fine you a cent, but I can really see why. Please feel free to sue her”.

        And that’s what’s happening. In fact if you look closely, it’s all there in the video provided by Jane Tai.

        As for the 1 yuan judgement, see here:


        Some victory huh? And she was told by the courts to stop her slanderous posts, (Jane Huang), so she’s gone quiet whilst she waits for her turn to face the music in the courts in Taiwan, leaving Wu Hang Yee to carry on alone because she’s in Hong Kong.

        As for her story? Stay tuned…

      • Serena Skye

        Interesting, she had to pay her own court costs, so at the end of the day, it was really her who financially lost out in bringing the case, with an equivalent 4 cents recovered. It’s on her Facebook, 18 May 2020.

        Court cases aren’t cheap. The judge rules on the costs, which covers everybody’s wages (possibly even the defendants costs too, subject to ruling). She sure isn’t bothered about spending all that money just to get $1 (Taiwan).

        Except she says she’s not even going to bother collecting the money… and she’s happy with the judgement, according to her post, which you can find.

        She spent a fortune to “successfully sue” for a grand total of 4 US cents return that she didn’t want. That’s like spending several $1,000s US on lottery tickets, and “successfully winning $0.04” that wasn’t even worth the time and effort to collect.

        I am delighted that she is happy with the judgement. That court case really was a big win for her…

        “Propaganda pages”… such skilful use of language. Do you think they’re “government agents”?

  4. Serena Skye

    At 10.36 they show a screenshot of an alleged email from the Karmapa.

    Interesting that idlespace.net doesn’t have a website, nor any record anywhere on the net as ever having existed. So how can anyone sign-up and get an email account you can’t access?

    How is it possible for the Karmapa to have an email with an internet company that never ever existed or had any presence on the internet?

    It’s not possible. Good luck with explaining that!

  5. Demian

    According to the Wayback Machine and some Google search, there has been the IdleSpace Cafe Home Page with a BBS (internet forum), a rather large Taiwanese social website, active from 1999 until 2004, it could provide email addresses at that time, and the domain is still active so it is possible to use email addresses registered in the past. Also, a google search for ‘idlespace.net’ shows at least one announcement from a Karmapa’s student (unrelated to the affair), so it is possible that Taiwanese students of the Karmapa could register that email for him upon his request that he could continue using until 2013 and later.

    • Serena Skye

      …”announcement from a Karmapa’s student (unrelated to the affair)” have you a link for that?

      The BBS is an internal network and the Taiwan side points more to Huang herself. But nobody else using an @idlespace.net?

      How about Huang faked it? I use gmail and it’s easy as pie to produce a screenshot with an email address from “G.O.D@heaven.net”

      Or she has a Taiwanese university friend.

      How about Nigerian Princes? I have an email that will make people rich. Do you recommend it as trustworthy?

      I’d appreciate seeing that announcement.

      I’m desperately trying to prove her story TRUE…

      As for “IdleSpace Cafe Home Page” got a link for that too?

      Maybe it’s a “conspiracy” and the hoovered up and disappeared all trace of it but someone magicked up a working email provider that isn’t hosted anywhere?


      I get emails like that – Gmail filters them out. Heck, gmail even correctly filters out emails from accounts from personal friends who assure me they never sent them. But an email from an antiquated a closed pre-internet bbs system? More likely someone pretending. Someone in Taiwan perhaps.

      I’d appreciate the links. Thanks.

      Oh, and idlespace.net is registered via a Seattle proxy – Amazon Registrar – https://registrar.amazon.com/whois?domain=idlespace.net

      But that doesn’t mean there was a website, which there wasn’t other than obscure Taiwanese bbs references.

      Do you think the Karmapa asked someone in Taiwan to set up an email address for him just so that he can email someone else in Taiwan? When he was living in India?

      Karmapa: How do I set up email account?

      Advisors: Telephone some in Taiwan to set and account for you.

      Karmapa: Great! Do they have a website I can log into?

      Advisors: Umm. Uhh….

    • Serena Skye

      Thanks for the wayback hint Demian.

      The website never got built by 2003 – https://web.archive.org/web/20030802160510/http://www.idlespace.net/

      Damn – a rather large Taiwanese social website active “still under construction” 4 years later and never got off the ground…

      Outages and all – and check this – https://web.archive.org/web/20020212091617/http://bbs.idlespace.net/

      … it’s in English. Plain as day they don’t provided a public email service. Good job people in Taiwan managed to get it working just so the Karmapa can have an email account…

      I sent an email to TotalFarce@idlespace.net – I’ll let you know what happens.

      • Demian

        It is not ‘still under construction’ but rather obviously discontinued as BBS in general got mostly replaced with social networks.
        For example one email address mentioned here https://buddhistmilitarysangha.blogspot.com/2008/08/appeal-for-stones-from-iraq.html allegedly belongs to a ‘student of His Holiness the 17th Karmapa’.
        There are also some telnet links to this address that can be found suggesting that it is a remnant of even older internet era.
        But I admit that I used ‘large’ in error.

  6. Serena Skye

    It was ‘still under construction’ in the 2003 link I sent – but glad you confirm it was discontinued…

    That link you provided is “An Online Resource for Buddhists Associated with the United States Armed Forces”.

    The person who claims to be a student of K17 is quote “… an ordained priest in the Nishi Hongwanji branch of Jodo Shinshu Buddhism. I currently serve as a United States Navy Chaplain, stationed at Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton, California, USA.” (at time of posting).

    She’s a westerner living in Oceanside CA using an adopted Zen name. https://www.blogger.com/profile/17712459960189461740 and her waybacked profile shows her in US military uniform.


    The blogs disclaimer “This blog is not an official publication of the Department of Defense, any government agency, or any other organization.” Guess they could be unofficial DoD?

    And her blog

    Glad you spotted the telnet connection. They still publish their databases and archives.

    Where’s the Taiwan connection other than the couple of online @bbs.idlespace.net references (which is not the same as @idlespace.net)?

    I don’t feel confident to invest in supporting a narrative that can easily be debunked by acceptable digital forensics in any court of law.

    Oh, and the email I sent to TotalFarce@idlespace.net didn’t bounce back. Do you think that’s proof TotalFarce has an email account and therefore TotalFarce exists?

    Sonam Norbu mentioned Chinese agents – but not for which organization. Perhaps they are “anti-mainland Chinese agents on behalf of the US military”? “Unofficially” of course…

    Thanks for the link.

    And thank you Shaun Bartone for having the guts to allow a proper debate on the merits as to whether the email account ever existed… or that it in any way constitutes proof of ownership.

    So far we have a western academic dial-up BBS system that never successfully ported to the internet, a waybacked record showing thus, and a telnet timeline confirming the “idlespace.net” was not functioning at the time nor ever provided an email service. Along the way we’ve discover the telnet BBS system includes US military personnel claiming to be “a student of K17” whilst being an “ordained zen priest” operating websites from a US military base!

    I’m not sure how an allegedly not-so “large Taiwanese social media”platform we can’t find evidence of ever existing ended up being more forensically traceable to an outdated network that includes US military bases with people claiming to be Buddhist with a “Buddhist Military” focus via vague bbs.idlespace.net references…

    There is digital forensic confirmable evidence that shows idlespace.net never successfully ported to the net (financial problems), never offered or provided an email service, never used an @idlespace.net but instead allegedly used @bbs.dlespace.net was part of an archaic pre-internet Bulletin Board System required a direct number to number telephone dial-up to connect.

    The fundamental starting point in Jane Huang’s story – the origin of everything that followed – is the email. It’s like presenting an airline boarding pass as proof of being in a different country. When it turns out there was no airline operating those routes, could not carry passengers… well everything the person “reports” after arrival can not possibly take place.

    Also, the alleged email JH uses will have unalterable meta-data. What’s the odds if the actual meta-data is subpoenaed that Huang accidentally loses it?

    It’s easy to fabricate an email that looks exactly like her “proof”. An associate has already shown me how it’s done, and I have an email “from His Holiness the Karmapa” that states the following –

    From: OTD
    Date: Mon, May 31, 2021 at 2:33 PM
    Subject: Fwd: Fake email accounts
    To: Serena Skye

    Dear Serena,
    It’s easy to fake an email account. Especially when it can be shown to come from a non-existent service provider!!!
    But you now have “proof” we’re having cybersex.
    Yours sincerely – I am not real…

    Shaun – if you’d like a screenshot of that email, send me an email and I’ll respond. I also “have an email from the Karmapa OTD” signed Bigfoot.

    Allegedly Huang is about to be sued. Her entire premise is built upon an easy to fabricate email which used a name that undermines her story from the start.

    It’s one thing for her to have an email – “oh I didn’t know it was fake” when proven false, but what followed shows she’s prepared to use it for her own agenda. She can’t claim stupidity other than rank amateurishness.

    “Hoisted by one’s own petard” as Dirk Bogarde once paraphrased.

    • Shaun Bartone

      “But her emails…” This is starting to sound like the Hilary Clinton thing all over again. We heard it thousands of times in 2016. “But her emails…her emails…private server…we scanned tens of thousands of emails, nothing but duplicates…but her emails…her emails…private server…her emails…LOCK HER UP…LOCK HER UP…LOCK HER UP…LOCK HER UP…but her emails….emails…emails…emails…you can just grab ’em by the pussy…if you’re rich and famous they just let you do it…but her emails…her emails…emails…emails…emails…

    • Demian

      It would be great if a court decision gets published that ultimately disproves the emails, as well as Skype voice calls, and the child that another lady Wu Hang Yee allegedly has from Karmapa. I hope you or the blog author keeps us updated on that.
      However, Wayback Machine data can not be a ‘digital forensic confirmable evidence’ because unfortunately it cannot crawl and save all pages of a given web site for any moment in time.

      • Serena Skye

        But what wayback does reveal is acceptable for that point in time. Just as meta-data is a fingerprint.

        Yes Shaun – lock K17 up, here’s Jane Huang’s email…

        I do think you’re invoking a straw man in the form of HRC mixed with Trump, and I;m not sure what you’re getting at?.

        Demian, “the child that another lady Wu Hang Yee allegedly has from Karmapa” – do you have a link for this?

        Seriously, I’d really appreciate it…

      • Demian

        Sorry, I confused her with the nun who was mentioned in this post above. Also a child would be very easy to disprove with DNA testing.

  7. Serena Skye

    Speaking of “fabrication”, here’s Jane Huang’s own words, 21st Dec, 2020 –

    “Dzongsar Khyentse was subpoenaed by Taiwan High Court yet escaped to attend to testify twice!! He dares not admit the fake Wechat messages that Lodro Rinchen handed to the court were offered by him for Stephanie Lai to pass to Lordo Rinchen to launch cyberbullying against me . All the evidences and voices recording are documented in Taiwan High Court.”

    Wow! At least we know Wechat exists. And apparently it’s easy for Dzongsar to fake his Wechat call messages with Ms Huang and to get it entered into court evidence, according to Ms Huang….

    Ms Huang herself is posting screenshot messages from an account named Obi-wan Kenobi, whom she says is Dzongsar. I wonder if she’s submitted those as evidence too?

    This is riveting stuff… I wonder if it’ll run a third season? Faked records is certainly a theme in the courts already, according to Ms Huang.

  8. Serena Skye

    @Demian – apparently Vikki Han published an image of a DNA test result and the father’s name is “Underpant’s Stain”. I kid you not!

    • Serena Skye

      Correction – the alleged father’s name is: “Stain on Underwear”.

      We do not want rumors to spread with the wrong father named!

      I formally apologize to “Underpant’s Stain” for messing up.

    • Demian

      Is there a link to that image?

      • Serena Skye

        Yes – but firstly, Demian, let’s refer to “Master Ellwood” in the court document: Section [51] f)

        “They did not share their relationship with their peers or their community.”

        “There is no allegation, for example, that Mr. Dorje told his fellow monks or any of his followers about the relationship.”

        “There is no allegation that Ms. Han told her friends or any co-workers.”

        “Indeed, there is no allegation that anyone, with the exception of Ms. Han’s mother, knew about the relationship.”

        “Although Mr. Dorje gave Ms. Han’s mother a gift, he never met the mother and he never spoke to her.” *

        Source: https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/sc/21/09/2021BCSC0939cor1.htm

        Dated May 17th, 2021

        The following will now show otherwise.

        This video made by alleged “propagandists” dated 27 August, 2020 is titled:

        “Vikki Hui Xin Han(Dazhen Shi)Jane Huang&Wu Hang-Yee—【Evidence stealing photos & information】”

        Source: https://youtu.be/iLSrCvFKkrA

        So Vikki Hui Xin Han is purported to be Dazhen Shi. That’s an allegation, right?

        The name is made public, in the context of Karmapa, nine months before it is declared in court that nobody except Ms Han’s mother knew of the relationship. This is recorded – time stamped.

        Let’s call these “propagandists” the Psychic Brigade, or TPB

        TPB publish that a woman Vikki Hui Xin Han is also Dazhen Shi, and this person is connected to the two women in the OP, and all three are somehow involved in a false sexualized Karmapa story. That’s another allegation.

        This shows “Master Ellwood” was misinformed. He also stated “Mr Dorje current resides in India. Afaik, he hasn’t been back to India once in the last four years.

        TPB unfortunately aren’t native English speakers and online translation for Tradition Chinese is not up to scratch, and although the Simplified Chinese provided by google provides a more sensible translation, it still is very clunky.

        One thing TPB alleges is that accounts were created, deleted, swapped around etc. Sock puppets in modern parlance. Another name TPB references is Khadro, or Kenzeo Yeshe. These names and screenshots appear throughout their timeline.

        Now here’s the rub. Would K17 or his “propagandists” fabricate an allegation that he’d fathered a child in order to keep the allegation that he fathered a child secret?

        With that in mind – the Psychic Brigade have just answered your question – top post link here:


        And you can even question them about how, when and where they got the images.

        Now whilst wayback that may not preserve a website, references to it can often be found.

        Here’s a recent Khadro Yeshe incarnation: https://www.facebook.com/hxin.han.9

        Note H Xin Han in the url? Translate her first post. A) you can tell this is a very recently made account. B) It references permission of use of the screenshots as existing prior to the account itself.

        Here is a recent Dazhen Shi: https://www.facebook.com/kiki.han.98499

        Note Kiki Han in the url? You’ll also note this account is focused on “debunking” the screenshots used by TPB, but does not deny their publication prior to her current account’s existence. The cap indeed fits… If the images are not hers, why does she not automatically assume “It must be a different Dazhen Shi”.

        She even posts that she’s not connected to Wu Hang Yee by posting a screenshot of her cell stating “The left side of the video on 2019/07/17 is a screenshot of my mobile phone, which proves that Wu Xing’er has been blocked…”

        Proving that there was a connection in the first place…

        And at the same time the account also uses the name Kiki Han.

        That’s three strikes! She has inadvertently confirmed the fundamental premise in the TPB’s August 2020 video.

        Here are three Wu Hang Yee accounts

        1 https://www.facebook.com/karmajangchubdawa

        2 https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100033567996276

        3 https://www.facebook.com/chanda.wu

        The first one, karmajangchubdawa, references losing an account before the others came into existence – so again there’s an admission from the horse’s mouth that there are other account’s.

        Slight bit of irony with the “Lock her up”, if you care to check the three accounts.

        Finally, here’s Jane Huang’s account – https://www.facebook.com/janehuang21

        Enough said, eh?

        (Sidebar, found any discussions reviewing how good or bad idlespace.net’s service is?)

        In the Han v Dorje court document conclusion, Master Ellwood instructed:

        Within 21 days, or such other deadline as the parties may agree, Ms. Han must provide particulars of the marriage-like relationship alleged in the amended notice of family claim.

        So I ask again, would “propagandists” fabricate an allegation that the Karmapa fathered a child in order to keep the allegation that he fathered a child secret? And then posted it in blogs, videos and facebook months before “Master Ellwood” declared nobody knew about the relationship, except Ms Hans mother…

        * Trungpa was born Mukpo – Mukpo was on his passport. The same principal applies the Karmapa as it would to any religious figure. Pope Francis’ first name is Jorge on his passport. Apo Gaga is the Karmapa’s first name.

        Looks like they didn’t do their homework – did they?

        All “In the Name of Enlightenment”, eh?

        I suspect this Apocryphal Production will flop resoundingly. Heck, it might even ruin the franchise.

        A ‘Behind the Scenes’ DVD would reveal a more interesting comedy of errors.

      • Demian

        Thank you for all this information!

  9. John Redmon

    Sit the ground, erect the spine, close your eyes, try to stop thinking. Repeat.

    That is all that is required. No sangha. No guru. Just you.

    EVERYTHING depends on this: the state of your mind.

    Discipline your mind.

    A failure to understand this has resulted in everything written above.

    • Demian

      Maybe you should have done that yourself instead of writing the comment? Just saying.

  10. Big Jim

    Sounds like we need to form a posse to handle all them asians going around acting smart and all. We don’t need no evidence! Them asians is coming here and taking over everything. All of dem rinposheas are guilty! String em up! Be damned with the Ox bow Incident and Rashomans bs. In Merica, we don’t need courts and evidence we just gather and hang folks! God bless!

  11. Pingback: Karmapa Redoubt: Fake Monk | Engage!

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